Now this, THIS is a good blog.

Trinitie

Are you being a smart ass? I can't tell.

nah, man, I like it.

Trinitie

- Was Jesus intolerant?

Yes. He tolerated a lot of stuff, but not everything.

Are acceptance and approval the same thing?

Yes. But accepting one thing while disapproving of another aren't the same thing. For example, I accept the space program, but disapprove of the space shuttle. I accept my sister, but disapprove of her taste in asshat boyfriends. I accept the requirements of my job, but disapprove of many of my employer's policies.

Does loving someone mean looking past their sin?

Yes.

Is it possible to truly separate a person’s actions from their character?

I guess it depends on your definitions. The way I define the words, a person's actions spring from their character; far from separating them, we should remark a strong link between them.

However, I think it's possible to separate a person's character (and actions) from their essential humanity. And I think that making this separation is what enables us to love people in spite of their sin, accept them in spite of their character, befriend and nurture them in spite of their actions.

If Christ hung out with the “undesirables”, does that mean I should too?

Yes, yes, and a thousand times yes. The Christian scriptures are absolutely and explicitly clear on this point. Christ didn't just hang out with undesireables, he intentionally role-modeled such behavior to his followers, and used such encounters as teachable moments.

Can two people with opposing convictions maintain a healthy relationship?

Yes. But it's not easy. And if they're in a relationship like marriage, which depends heavily on teamwork and a unity of purpose for its success, then no: a healthy marriage relationship cannot be long maintained between two people with opposing convictions: They must decide important issues jointly, but are each convinced that the other is wrong (that's what "opposing convictions" means)--how can they agree on a healthy course of action?

Does growing up as a Christian mean truth gets blurry?

No.

Can I quiet the noise of the church long enough to hear the Voice of God?

Yes. You might also consider quieting the voice of "self" long enough to hear the Voice of God come to you through communion with your fellow Christians (which we call "church"). Hearing God through communion with fellow believers is a component of a healthy relationship with God that is described in the Christian scriptures.

Are there really any right answers?

Yes.

Was Jesus intolerant? Yes
Are acceptance and approval the same thing? No
Does loving someone mean looking past their sin?
No, God is Love and he doesn't look past our sin. In fact he hates sin so much that he can't even look at it. God demonstrated his love by sending his son to die in our place. That isn't looking past our sin. What it is is facing the problem straight on and finding a solution.

Is it possible to truly separate a person’s actions from their character?
No, a person's actions show us the nature of their character. All of us are born with a sinful character and our actions show that. The only method the Bible gives us of determining a person's true nature is based on their actions or their fruit.

If Christ hung out with the “undesirables”, does that mean I should too? Yes, but we are not to participate in their sinful activities.

Can two people with opposing convictions maintain a healthy relationship? No, "Can two walk together, unless they be agreed?" (Amos 3:3)

Does growing up as a Christian mean truth gets blurry? No. Why would you think that?

Can I quiet the noise of the church long enough to hear the Voice of God?
Maybe you are in the wrong church.

Are there really any right answers? Jesus is the answer.

Are there really any right answers? Jesus is the answer.

I miss those days when simple truth seemed to be enough.

Thanks for trying.

Simple truth has never been enough.

The world is not a simple place.

Simple truth is for children, who are not yet prepared to deal with the complexities and confusions that are the natural state of the world.

Nostalgia for one's childhood is tempting, but it's better to seek out a complex, mature truth as we mature into complex beings in a complex world.

Do I know you Stutefish? I appreciate your insights.

Ok....I'm going to attempt to tackle this one.....just my two cents of course.

1. Was Jesus intolerant? No. I think he loved and accepted people where they were, despite what they did.
2. Does acceptance = approval? No way. You can accept someone without approving of their actions. I accept that George Bush is my President, even though I don't approve or war. Hell, go for the gold, you can even love someone without approving of what they do (I don't love George). I think people have trouble coming to terms with the places that others "don't look like them" or "act like them" because they think they have to approve of everything a person does in order to be around them. In most cases, folks are not asking for your approval, they are asking for your acceptance and love. You can accept someone and love someone and desire relationship with someone even if you cannot come to grips with their actions. But I guess its something you have to decide for yourself!
3. Does love mean looking past sin? Yes. You are not the judge. Leave it to God. He can handle things himself. You have not been nominated for that position.
4. Separate actions from character? YES. Just because a person does something does not make them something. Make sense. And, just because someone doesn't do something that aligns with your beliefs or definitions of right and wrong does not make everything about them worthless.
5. Hanging out with "undesirables"? I say - Try it. You might like it. Jesus seemed to enjoy himself. Hey, we're the ones with the great stories - lots of drama. No, honestly, you might find that the "undesirables" are more desirable because they don't come with the judgements, etc. that others do. They might just accept you for YOU. It could be an enlightening experience.
6. Opposing views and a healthy relationships - Yes. Yes. Yes. I guarantee it will make life more fun. Don't focus on finding people who are like you - step outside the box and you might find that you are missing out on knowing some great folks.
7. Blurry truth? Absolutely. Look at how many people leave the traditional church after seminary or after a tough experience. The more you learn, the more blurry everything gets. Personally, I think that, if there is a higher being, he rather enjoys watching you bump into things because your vision is blurred.
8. Noise of the church - I had to leave it entirely to even remember who I was. Remember, God is not confined to those wall. Hey, you might even find him amongst the "undesirables."
9. Right answers? Mine of course! No really, that's a good question. My friend, we are just all trying to get by. If you figure that one out, let me know!

Good luck as your sort this all out!

I'll try and tackle this, but I'll probably suck at it (LOL!) Bear with me here, though!

Was Jesus intolerant?

Yes, Jesus was intolerant of many things, especially chronic, intentional sin. Even his admonition to the woman caught in adultery to "go and sin no more" hinges on the fact that she HAD sinned, and that he was identifying it as such. What she received, in effect, was a pardon, not an acquittal.

Are acceptance and approval the same thing?

I would have answered this differently ten years ago, but as my children grow older and my oldest begins making decisions on her own, I have to say most definitely NOT. I will always accept my children because I love them dearly. I never want them to lose sight of the fact they have a home to return to, regardless of where they are in life. But I will not always approve of their actions.

Does loving someone mean looking past their sin?

No, it means loving them DESPITE their sin.


Is it possible to truly separate a person’s actions from their character?

Their actions define their character. I don't believe it's possible to separate the two. But I do believe it's possible to love them despite it all.

If Christ hung out with the “undesirables”, does that mean I should too?

Not necessarily. Christ had His ministry, you have yours. But you shouldn't judge someone else who DOES hang out with the "undesirables" based simply on that fact.

Can two people with opposing convictions maintain a healthy relationship?

I believe so, yes. It's certainly difficult, but it can be done.

Does growing up as a Christian mean truth gets blurry?

That one's too big for me to even pretend to tackle

Can I quiet the noise of the church long enough to hear the Voice of God?

I've struggled with this one, honestly. I'm finally reconciling with the church (specifically, the Baptist church) after a lot of very real, very deep pain, associated with the church. I think this is why it is so essential to spend personal time in study and meditation away from the distractions of the church.

Are there really any right answers?

Yes, there are. But they get muddied in the shades of grey so much that they're hard to see. But they ARE there, although some of them may be different for you than they are for me.

Excellent questions, thanks very much for putting them out and allowing us to at least attempt to answer them in our own feeble ways.

Concerned Friend & Gideon,

Thank you for taking the time to toy with my questions. Your answers were well thought out and insightful. I appreciate your responses, and I hope I will someday reconcile all the things that make faith so difficult.

P.S. Gideon, -- I saw you at my little home town church last Sunday, but I didn't know you were you until my grandmother told me later. Otherwise, I would have introduced myself.

Concerned friend--do I know you?

P.S. Gideon, -- I saw you at my little home town church last Sunday, but I didn't know you were you until my grandmother told me later. Otherwise, I would have introduced myself.

Yeah, I figured that was one of the two of you...narrowed it down after you blogged about heading back here in another article. But I'd have felt kinda silly introducing myself if it wasn't you...lol!

Ah, well, I'm sure we'll catch you one of the next times you're in town. We'll know who each other is this time through, though.

I don't have a lot of the answers myself, but I try to do the best I can with them.

Indirectly! I know your questions very well, however, as I have struggled and grappled with them myself not long ago!

Indirectly! I know your questions very well, however, as I have struggled and grappled with them myself not long ago!

I don't check out new comments often enough. So we have an indirect connection huh? I re-read your previous response and I have my suspicions to your identity. I'm glad to know you have reached your own conclusions. I'm still working on mine. Thanks for taking the time to read and reply.

This reply is for stutefish: I realize your comments were made more than two months ago, so you or anyone else may never read this, but I have to say... My heart goes out to you. Your bitterness seeps between the lines. I believe simple truth is not only enough, but the only truth. You are right when you say the world is not a simple place. It is not. But scripture tells us we should have the spirit of a child. A child's innocence is a gift. Although the state of today's world and the effects of alcoholism, drug addiction and other tragedies, often rob children of their innocence, it is never too late to seek God's simple truth -- to let go of our "complex, mature truth" and to seek a renewed innocence in faith.

We miss the moment when we are consumed with the analysis of our "complexities" -- a tragedy in and of itself. God resides in the moment. It is the moment in which we find our truth. I experience the sunlight of the spirit when I keep it simple, when I innocently trust God as a child trusts a mentor--a mentor who, in this case, will not falter in her/his humanity. A childlike faith--a simple truth-- is my interpretation of God's will.